Double Take: Gorgeous Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns - Field & Stream If you are interested in import, export, or wholesale purchase of shotguns, theres no better place than AmmoTerra to find a buyer or supplier of military equipment. Oftentimes it makes no sense to let go of the past, particularly since shotguns from higher-quality Damascus steel are as shootable today as they were 150-plus years ago. thanks for the help so far. Brancquaert Louis
No maker's name anywhere? Broqua & Scholberg
The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. gfk0W2|Z#C7xA5 2`f)Hj'[iZWMU=|J-T `)Mtex=]m$azBbk>$QPB
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;U}LuB+2aki!Ld1QNUwr$Oaj9,U1Oe~N2u]6;&?a'LOe3 NIIS/\4fFIGXT[,(rN]3"!2(4YBd^VUY:;jWCJ^f"X.2X:l\d>|D}#&Ofw`Rv|$6&)M That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! Henri Pieper (left) and Nicolas Pieper (right) Henri Pieper was born and raised in modest German home in Soest (Westphalia) Germany on Oct 30, 1840. rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. Heyday of the Shotgun: The art of the gunmaker at the turn of the last century. He designed iconic guns like the M1911 handgun, the Browning Hi-Power pistol, and the Browning Auto-5 shotgun. M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. We now have 1689 serial numbers!. Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. << /Length 5 0 R /Filter /FlateDecode >> Bovy Thodore Joseph
of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his
examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these Credit: @matt_s_schmidt Unfortunately, given that double barrel shotguns were made in numerous countries and then exported to the USA, chances are that not all of them will state the manufacturer and serial number in the same way. Does it reach the touch hole? Saillevillean E. reversed set in a square stamp (as shown below). Colette Victor
I can send pictures of it. Rich engraved. Other makers include Lebeau Courally and Mahillon. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time!
The "D.D.
Variant of the one above, used for some month in 1894 and sometimes later on Not for ball, indicates that the barrel has choke. Antique Shotguns (Pre-1899): Belgian Shotguns, Side by Side Shotguns Our inventory of antique shotguns is made up of shotguns manufactured before 1899, including English, French, and Belgian shotguns. "Any maker's name or place of origin? In addition to Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post.
PDF PROOF MARKS ProoF MarKs - NRA Museum significance or purpose.
Biography: Henri & Nicolas Pieper - Forgotten Weapons Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). The wood does not look ancient so I am guessing in the 1970s or so. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. this location now so you can return often. Double proof as prescribed by the French law of 1810. Just re-visiting this thread to see if there is any new insight on the symbol "E" in the triangle on the side of the breech. The mark is applied after the gun has passed the Belgian proof. Ancion Jacques & Cie
Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. Seen Thanks a ton this, helped me identify a friends old revolver. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. Where did you find the Falla mark? The problem is this mark was used from 1818 (muzzle loading period) until 1893, so that hardly narrows down the time frame.
My uncle has this neat old revolver that he doesn't know much about One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875.
Belgian Proof Marks Help Needed - The Snipe Hunting Forum Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. Sounds like a 19th C. Belgian pinfire shotgun (grin). There's no indication of gauge. Hand Guns 17 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. I'm very excited about this gun because I think the serial number is 106.
Hits and Misses: Dating a Double-Barreled Hammer Gun - Blogger Very long barrel. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). What does 12 over C mean in a triangle? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Once tested and successful the weapon was stamped with a seal to Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. It is located just above the circle with ELG. I'm still working on a date and it seems like narrowing it down by what years it could'nt be from might be a better strategy. Hi, Jeremy. The Standard mark for French Government arms was a crown above an E., and this crown has a three looped top, with the orb or ball and cross as ornament, and is so distinguished from the cross-crested crown of some St. Etienne weapons. Hi Gerard and everyone! Based only on the pictures, those barrels do not appear to be Damascus. for exports be able towithstand a proscribed load without damage.
Antique Double Barrel Shotgun: Identifying, Valuing, and Buying Old Belgian musket help | The Muzzleloading Forum Email: ghcox3@gmail.com. I also looked at other European proof marks but didn't find the one you mention: compare http://www.cornellpubs.com/Catalog/proof-marks-intl.pdf. In 1899 alone, the U.S. firms of Hartley & Graham and Simmons Hardware bought 90,000 shotguns, rifles, and handguns from Liege gunmakers. Chaineux J.
barrel began as a means to insure its safety and integrity. Sorry I can't be more helpful. Markings on gun barrels and other gun components that indicate the level of pressure, calibre and standards that a weapon is fit for in service.. But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one cant get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one cant find the inspectors mark. Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. The book presented below is the second of the series and is covering the gun makers whose names are in the D to F range of the alphabetical order. Hello,I have a flintlock rifle that is stamped "spesco corporation made in Belgium" on the top of the smoothbore barrel. This will be an on going
it says made in belgium on the side of the barrel yes but on the top of the barrell it says acier cokerill on 1 barrel on the top and on the other barrel on the top next to it it just says liege belgium and yes there is a stamp on the inside of the barrel next to all the other markings that says LLH what does that mean? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
29 Classic Guns: Old Rifles, Collectible Shotguns, and - Field & Stream As mentioned, Damascus barrels were made from strips of iron and steel wrapped around a mandrel in "barber pole" fashion, and the spriral pattern can usually be seen clearly. The Modern Shotgun. The viewers mark was a capital V, also surmounted with a crown. Bodson N.
The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Thomas Jefferson. 1860-1870. Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Comblain H. J. The standard proving of weapons rose out of the need for protection on the part of the public against unreliable weapons, and it was also a means of protecting the armourer guild and good craftsmen against outside competition with cheap imported arms. SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Colleye Henri Joseph
After 1924 fractions of grams were no longer used 1892 - present 1K355.5 17 On this page, once you scroll past the patent stuff, you'll find a gun very much like yours. The "1136" might be the serial number for that pair of pistols. this book online and pay it through Paypal. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. Original British Martini-Henry Rifle Extractor Mk IV From $34.95 Free Domestic Shipping on orders $300+ Hassle Free 30 Day Return Period 100% Safe Secure Checkout Guaranteed Authentic to the Historical Period There is no doubt that this system contributed much to the good report in which properly proved arms were held, and laid the foundation of much export trade. Marks, Arsenal & Inspector Marks. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. I have my grand dads Belgian Browning A5 Sweet Sixteen. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Is there a stamp of LLH on the tubes forward of the flats? 254.541.2985 John Hille, john@jhille.com. Comblain Hubert Joseph
Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. Andr M.J.
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202. How do I price this piece? These marks are customarily the cipher of the gunsmiths guild and the mark of the State or city. Around the 1880s, Damascus barrels became an object of the past. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . 2 On barrel locking system or chamber if the lumps are part of the barrel after final black powder proof, Preliminary proof for unfinished barrels, and indicated barrels had not been weakened after proof by breeching, Used on muzzle loaders, Bore diameter in millimeters. I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E.
Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). There are a number of ('Manufacturer') Home > Product Catalog Shotguns made in Belgium category Firearms/ Small arms 731 Rifles 237 Shotguns 359 Pistols 134 Blank/Signal/Rubberball pistols 1 Black powder/Muzzleloader 2 Ammunition 3 Ammunition Components/Reloading 20 Collings Hadelin
Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com).
Bernard Lambert
The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. be reproduced, in part or in whole, without the written permission of '. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . x\}WT_0qk E%Mp8@S36QG7=TFx,P?wU]4v>3}wc)0~_+. Counet Philippe
Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! In 1849 the additional ciphers for provisional proof the letters E.L. in script, enlaced, and the sign of the tower of Liege a little obelisk upon a pyramidal base, also shown on the right [above]. So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions?
Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand Have had this gun in family for as far as i remember at least 40 years.
Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. What about a lightning bolt with a star above? Pictures would help! L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? Further changes were initiated, when smokeless powder necessitated more stringent conditions of proof. Good examples of the information that can be derived from adequate images. It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Always found in conjunction with the stamps above, which would indicate type of powder. A fine antique 18th Century Double Barreled English Percussion Sporting Gun by the famous maker Henry Nock London, caliber 14 mm . Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. Bischop Pierre
Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 .
Galaxy M33 5G Galaxy Watch5 Galaxy Buds2 Pro Galaxy Book2 Pro 360 Hi, your shotgun was made after 1924 due to the Perron-Liege proof marks. Four barrel . Bauduin Charles
I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. Comblain
Birmingham had also a proof, but this test was not obligatory, and makers evaded the tests. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. Ever seen that? Due to the
Serial # 58755 S76 This custom made Belgium gun was probably designed for the European market.
BRITTE, BURY AND OTHERS Magic of hunting gun Thanks! Thanks so much. The book
Old Belgium 12 gage double barrel shotgun. 1899-2011 Modern Guns.
Are Damascus-Barreled Shotguns Safe to Shoot? I can't tell if it was proved for nitro: those have a lion over the PV. Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Today, Belgian firearms designer Francotte builds famed double barreled shotguns and fine rifles. These might cursive as well. OldGuns Newsletter . Shooting Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture By Jim Harmer Updated on February 7, 2023 It's important to know where your firearms come from if you are a conscious consumer who wants to make sure your money is only going to places you support. Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheux's 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges. Bouquin Ad
The circled L is a special proof mark applied to guns imported into Belgium that do not carry proof marks recognized by the Liege proof house. This listing allows you to trace back a particular nation's aviation history in reverse-chronological order. I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). weapon.
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